1
00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:16,710
i never got any money from you

2
00:00:22,850 --> 00:00:18,630
ufo might just as well stand for

3
00:00:28,470 --> 00:00:26,070
[Music]

4
00:00:30,310 --> 00:00:28,480
this is the saucer life a podcast in

5
00:00:31,990 --> 00:00:30,320
which we examine concepts events or

6
00:00:34,389 --> 00:00:32,000
people orbiting the world of flying

7
00:00:37,670 --> 00:00:34,399
saucers few preconceptions snark when

8
00:00:41,910 --> 00:00:37,680
justified no belief no debunking this is

9
00:00:45,110 --> 00:00:41,920
lammers millabs so this topic came about

10
00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:45,120
in an interesting way there's a book

11
00:00:49,190 --> 00:00:48,000
milabs military mind control and alien

12
00:00:52,389 --> 00:00:49,200
abduction

13
00:00:54,549 --> 00:00:52,399
that was published in 1999 by illuminate

14
00:00:56,389 --> 00:00:54,559
press and as many of you know illumina

15
00:00:59,029 --> 00:00:56,399
press was a

16
00:01:01,590 --> 00:00:59,039
critically interesting publisher of

17
00:01:04,149 --> 00:01:01,600
paranormal and parapolitical books back

18
00:01:05,590 --> 00:01:04,159
in the 90s but this book is extremely

19
00:01:08,469 --> 00:01:05,600
hard to find

20
00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:08,479
i received my copy as a gift from a

21
00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:10,640
listener mark in the uk

22
00:01:14,310 --> 00:01:12,640
with the promise that i would do an

23
00:01:15,030 --> 00:01:14,320
episode about it

24
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:15,040
so

25
00:01:23,109 --> 00:01:16,530
here it is

26
00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:23,119
[Music]

27
00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:26,880
okay so just to lay it out there in case

28
00:01:31,030 --> 00:01:29,680
you don't know the term millabs is a

29
00:01:34,230 --> 00:01:31,040
term that

30
00:01:37,670 --> 00:01:34,240
this man helmet lamer came up with as a

31
00:01:40,069 --> 00:01:37,680
sort of portmanteau of military

32
00:01:42,069 --> 00:01:40,079
abductions and there's overtones of mind

33
00:01:44,789 --> 00:01:42,079
control with it and we've touched on

34
00:01:46,310 --> 00:01:44,799
this topic of mind control and

35
00:01:48,789 --> 00:01:46,320
alien abductions

36
00:01:50,469 --> 00:01:48,799
and possible government

37
00:01:53,830 --> 00:01:50,479
involvement in it

38
00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:53,840
in a number of previous episodes in one

39
00:01:59,670 --> 00:01:56,960
way or another probably the most

40
00:02:02,469 --> 00:01:59,680
prominent one is our episode we did on

41
00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:02,479
martin cannon's essay the controllers it

42
00:02:09,350 --> 00:02:06,240
also came up in the works of leah haley

43
00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:09,360
that we looked at a couple years ago so

44
00:02:14,390 --> 00:02:13,200
who is helmut lammer well he's billed

45
00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:14,400
whenever he's mentioned as an

46
00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:17,120
atmospheric scientist back in the 90s

47
00:02:21,430 --> 00:02:19,200
that's how he was introduced

48
00:02:22,710 --> 00:02:21,440
atmospheric scientist helmut lammer he

49
00:02:25,190 --> 00:02:22,720
lives in

50
00:02:27,510 --> 00:02:25,200
europe and i googled him i think he's on

51
00:02:30,949 --> 00:02:27,520
linkedin i think that no no i found his

52
00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:30,959
homepage or his staff page at his job at

53
00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:33,920
the austrian academy of sciences where

54
00:02:38,790 --> 00:02:36,800
he continues to work on stuff about

55
00:02:41,509 --> 00:02:38,800
atmospheres particularly

56
00:02:42,630 --> 00:02:41,519
exo atmospheres i think that was the

57
00:02:44,229 --> 00:02:42,640
term

58
00:02:46,070 --> 00:02:44,239
atmospheres and other planets if i

59
00:02:47,750 --> 00:02:46,080
understand all the different scientific

60
00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:47,760
terminology

61
00:02:51,830 --> 00:02:49,440
he is

62
00:02:54,869 --> 00:02:51,840
he's a legit scientist he's

63
00:02:57,350 --> 00:02:54,879
authored and co-authored dozens and

64
00:03:00,309 --> 00:02:57,360
dozens and dozens of scientific papers

65
00:03:01,190 --> 00:03:00,319
all with titles that are way over my

66
00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:01,200
head

67
00:03:07,670 --> 00:03:05,360
so his background is not in

68
00:03:09,830 --> 00:03:07,680
really anything that has to do with the

69
00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:09,840
topic about which he wrote

70
00:03:13,910 --> 00:03:11,120
this book

71
00:03:16,309 --> 00:03:13,920
about he's not a neurosurgeon he's not a

72
00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:16,319
neuroscientist he's not a psychologist

73
00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:19,840
he's not uh he's really not a ufologist

74
00:03:22,790 --> 00:03:21,040
really it's a different sort of

75
00:03:24,229 --> 00:03:22,800
background and

76
00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:24,239
one could argue

77
00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:25,200
that

78
00:03:30,149 --> 00:03:27,040
as an atmospheric scientist he doesn't

79
00:03:32,309 --> 00:03:30,159
really have expertise in

80
00:03:34,149 --> 00:03:32,319
these sort of ufological topics but to

81
00:03:36,869 --> 00:03:34,159
be fair nobody really has expertise in

82
00:03:38,789 --> 00:03:36,879
ufological topics uh unless they've

83
00:03:40,550 --> 00:03:38,799
gotten it by reading a bunch of ufo

84
00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:40,560
books right

85
00:03:45,110 --> 00:03:43,840
now what i like about lammer is that he

86
00:03:46,869 --> 00:03:45,120
doesn't

87
00:03:48,630 --> 00:03:46,879
really throw around

88
00:03:50,949 --> 00:03:48,640
at least that i noticed throw around the

89
00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:50,959
fact that he's a scientist as proof that

90
00:03:55,190 --> 00:03:52,560
his ideas are

91
00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:55,200
the right ones so i liked that now as

92
00:03:59,990 --> 00:03:57,280
for his wife marion his co-author on

93
00:04:02,869 --> 00:04:00,000
this i could not find other information

94
00:04:05,350 --> 00:04:02,879
on her at all except her role

95
00:04:07,990 --> 00:04:05,360
working with him on this book if anybody

96
00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:08,000
has any marian lammer

97
00:04:12,070 --> 00:04:10,720
bio scoop out there

98
00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:12,080
feel free to

99
00:04:17,030 --> 00:04:14,560
hit me with that information

100
00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:17,040
he did author other books on ufo

101
00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:20,320
subjects primarily in german but the

102
00:04:25,189 --> 00:04:22,560
milabs book is really the one he is the

103
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:25,199
most known for or the one for which he

104
00:04:29,430 --> 00:04:27,600
is the most known if we want to be

105
00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:29,440
really really picky about our

106
00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:33,120
prepositions this episode is about this

107
00:04:37,590 --> 00:04:35,280
particular book millabs and its

108
00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:37,600
precursors and responses to it i just

109
00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:39,360
want to make sure you know this is not

110
00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:42,720
about the millab mind control angle on

111
00:04:47,990 --> 00:04:45,360
abductions in general because we'd be

112
00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:48,000
here all day with that we might be here

113
00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:50,320
all day anyway and i think that looking

114
00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:52,800
at the millabs concept works better in

115
00:04:58,710 --> 00:04:55,120
the context of examining sort of the

116
00:05:00,310 --> 00:04:58,720
totality of an individual experiencer's

117
00:05:01,590 --> 00:05:00,320
story so

118
00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:01,600
rather than

119
00:05:07,590 --> 00:05:04,240
this is all about millabs and everybody

120
00:05:09,270 --> 00:05:07,600
who's claimed in a millab experience i

121
00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:09,280
think it works better sort of like we

122
00:05:14,150 --> 00:05:11,840
did with the leah haley thing this is

123
00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:14,160
leah haley's story and how she described

124
00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:16,880
it and in the course of that she comes

125
00:05:22,790 --> 00:05:19,440
to this conclusion about the government

126
00:05:25,029 --> 00:05:22,800
and military angle with regard to

127
00:05:26,790 --> 00:05:25,039
alien abduction experiences

128
00:05:30,070 --> 00:05:26,800
and this book is

129
00:05:33,029 --> 00:05:30,080
significant really because lammer

130
00:05:35,749 --> 00:05:33,039
develops this term milabs he begins this

131
00:05:38,310 --> 00:05:35,759
argument about it or his

132
00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:38,320
theorizing about it before the book is

133
00:05:43,270 --> 00:05:40,720
written and we'll talk about an essay in

134
00:05:44,950 --> 00:05:43,280
the mufon ufo journal that led this off

135
00:05:47,189 --> 00:05:44,960
and another significant thing about the

136
00:05:50,710 --> 00:05:47,199
story is not just his theory but about

137
00:05:52,469 --> 00:05:50,720
the people who came out sort of strongly

138
00:05:53,270 --> 00:05:52,479
against it because there were some

139
00:05:55,670 --> 00:05:53,280
pretty

140
00:05:57,830 --> 00:05:55,680
interesting names as we're going to find

141
00:05:58,710 --> 00:05:57,840
out so just to give you a rundown of how

142
00:06:00,629 --> 00:05:58,720
we're going to do this we're going to

143
00:06:01,830 --> 00:06:00,639
look at the

144
00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:01,840
essay

145
00:06:06,790 --> 00:06:04,800
that lammer writes that kicks off the

146
00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:06,800
mlabs discussion

147
00:06:10,390 --> 00:06:08,560
we're going to look at responses to that

148
00:06:13,590 --> 00:06:10,400
essay and then we're going to look at

149
00:06:15,189 --> 00:06:13,600
his book responses to that and responses

150
00:06:18,629 --> 00:06:15,199
are going to be drawn from

151
00:06:20,469 --> 00:06:18,639
some big names and also some ufo buff on

152
00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:20,479
the street sorts of things

153
00:06:25,430 --> 00:06:22,560
or at least some examples i was able to

154
00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:25,440
find on some of the darker dustier older

155
00:06:30,029 --> 00:06:27,520
corners of the internet

156
00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:30,039
so the story begins in december

157
00:06:37,029 --> 00:06:31,600
1996

158
00:06:39,430 --> 00:06:37,039
the mufon ufo journal where hamlet

159
00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:39,440
lammer published an article called

160
00:06:44,629 --> 00:06:42,560
preliminary findings of project millab

161
00:06:47,430 --> 00:06:44,639
evidence for military kidnappings of

162
00:06:49,909 --> 00:06:47,440
alleged ufo abductees it's a page

163
00:06:52,469 --> 00:06:49,919
article and it would form the core of

164
00:06:54,950 --> 00:06:52,479
what lammer would later write about in

165
00:06:57,749 --> 00:06:54,960
his book but this is a preliminary

166
00:06:59,189 --> 00:06:57,759
report so we should not be surprised if

167
00:07:01,990 --> 00:06:59,199
there is some

168
00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:02,000
difference some development between this

169
00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:03,599
version of his argument and what

170
00:07:08,309 --> 00:07:05,840
eventually appears in his book this

171
00:07:10,710 --> 00:07:08,319
article would be transcribed and find

172
00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:10,720
itself posted and reposted all over the

173
00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:14,400
internet which made it a handy pracy of

174
00:07:18,629 --> 00:07:17,759
his ideas about this topic that was

175
00:07:21,029 --> 00:07:18,639
you know

176
00:07:22,710 --> 00:07:21,039
easily obtainable for people

177
00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:22,720
because the book itself would end up

178
00:07:27,350 --> 00:07:25,280
being so difficult to find i think if

179
00:07:29,189 --> 00:07:27,360
lammer's mufon article hadn't made it

180
00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:29,199
out there onto the internet in various

181
00:07:33,749 --> 00:07:31,440
forms we wouldn't really hear that much

182
00:07:35,589 --> 00:07:33,759
about him except that he wrote this book

183
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:35,599
but because this article had quite a bit

184
00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:38,400
of circulation on usenet and websites

185
00:07:42,390 --> 00:07:40,720
and things like that people became more

186
00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:42,400
familiar with his ideas than they would

187
00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:45,280
have if it were only available in the

188
00:07:49,430 --> 00:07:46,960
book since that book would go out of

189
00:07:51,589 --> 00:07:49,440
print and indeed illuminate press would

190
00:07:53,510 --> 00:07:51,599
cease to exist not long after it was

191
00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:53,520
published and remaining copies of the

192
00:07:58,230 --> 00:07:56,400
book would be rare and expensive lammer

193
00:08:00,469 --> 00:07:58,240
begins the article by introducing the

194
00:08:02,869 --> 00:08:00,479
concept of military abductions and

195
00:08:05,909 --> 00:08:02,879
asserting that such claims are becoming

196
00:08:08,309 --> 00:08:05,919
more common all the time

197
00:08:10,390 --> 00:08:08,319
the core of the ufo abduction phenomenon

198
00:08:12,710 --> 00:08:10,400
cannot be explained psychologically as

199
00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:12,720
hallucinations or mass delusions

200
00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:14,400
the passing decades of abduction

201
00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:16,639
research brought other changes

202
00:08:21,029 --> 00:08:19,360
recently some ufo abductees have alleged

203
00:08:23,589 --> 00:08:21,039
that they were also being kidnapped by

204
00:08:26,309 --> 00:08:23,599
the military intelligence personnel

205
00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:26,319
a millab and taken to hospitals and or

206
00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:28,960
military underground facilities

207
00:08:32,389 --> 00:08:30,720
few of the popular books on the subject

208
00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:32,399
of ufo abductions mentioned these

209
00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:33,760
experiences

210
00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:35,360
especially disconcerting is the fact

211
00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:37,360
that abductees recalled seeing military

212
00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:39,680
intelligence personnel working side by

213
00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:41,919
side with alien beings in these secret

214
00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:44,000
facilities the presence of human

215
00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:46,000
military and or civilian personnel

216
00:08:50,070 --> 00:08:48,000
inhabiting the same physical reality as

217
00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:50,080
the alien beings exceeds both the

218
00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:52,320
mindsets of the skeptic and open-minded

219
00:09:01,110 --> 00:08:54,880
researcher alike by several orders of

220
00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:02,470
lammer laments that abduction

221
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:04,720
researchers tend not to focus on such

222
00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:06,720
cases because they are relatively few in

223
00:09:10,710 --> 00:09:08,640
number and notes that mind control

224
00:09:12,870 --> 00:09:10,720
researchers quote suggest that these

225
00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:12,880
cases are evidence that the whole ufo

226
00:09:16,710 --> 00:09:14,640
abduction phenomenon is staged by the

227
00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:16,720
intelligence community as a cover for

228
00:09:21,269 --> 00:09:19,360
their illegal experiments end quote so

229
00:09:22,670 --> 00:09:21,279
basically we're in a situation where

230
00:09:24,949 --> 00:09:22,680
these

231
00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:24,959
military-flavored abductions are either

232
00:09:31,829 --> 00:09:28,560
being ignored or used to marginalize or

233
00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:31,839
eliminate an alien explanation entirely

234
00:09:35,670 --> 00:09:33,680
lammer also believes that quote

235
00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:35,680
abduction cases in which the abductee

236
00:09:40,949 --> 00:09:38,320
reports that he or she was also abducted

237
00:09:45,269 --> 00:09:40,959
by the military are very important for

238
00:09:49,990 --> 00:09:47,829
one if the ufo community has evidence

239
00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:50,000
that a covert military intelligence task

240
00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:51,920
force is involved in the ufo abduction

241
00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:54,080
phenomenon we would then know that this

242
00:09:57,670 --> 00:09:55,760
phenomenon represents a matter of

243
00:09:58,470 --> 00:09:57,680
national security

244
00:10:00,389 --> 00:09:58,480
two

245
00:10:02,389 --> 00:10:00,399
the alleged military involvement in the

246
00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:02,399
abduction phenomenon could be evidence

247
00:10:06,550 --> 00:10:04,399
that they use abductees for mind control

248
00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:06,560
experiments as test targets for

249
00:10:10,790 --> 00:10:08,800
microwave weapons or that they monitor

250
00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:10,800
and kidnap abductees for information

251
00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:13,040
gathering purposes during a ufo

252
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:14,880
abduction experience

253
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:17,040
if one of these points is correct one

254
00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:19,200
can expect to run into early resistance

255
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:21,040
when proposing congressional hearings

256
00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:22,480
about ufos

257
00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:24,560
for these reasons i started project

258
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:27,279
millap and present in this article my

259
00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:35,590
in this article of preliminary findings

260
00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:37,600
there are seven sections including the

261
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:39,279
introduction which we discovered that

262
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:41,920
was section one and section seven is a

263
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:44,800
sort of concluding discussion section

264
00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:45,680
and

265
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,040
the intervening five sections correspond

266
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:51,519
to chapters in the millab's book that

267
00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:53,920
would come a couple years later so this

268
00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:57,120
article in the december 96 mufon journal

269
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:00,000
really is a sort of outline of what his

270
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:02,880
final report would be and would expand

271
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:03,839
upon

272
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:07,760
so section two is entitled helicopter

273
00:11:13,949 --> 00:11:10,480
activity in connection with millaps

274
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:13,959
and i am not sure there is a more

275
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:16,240
1990s thing

276
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:19,040
possible to find in a book about any of

277
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:20,640
these topics

278
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:24,240
other than this because i mean honestly

279
00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:25,760
helicopters

280
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,279
and guess what

281
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:29,440
i think they might be dark colored and

282
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:32,000
unmarked

283
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:34,480
1. the helicopter mystery starts during

284
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:36,800
the late 60s early 70s in connection

285
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:38,880
with animal mutilations

286
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:41,519
2. during these times the agenda behind

287
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:43,600
the helicopters showed a minor interest

288
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:45,920
in ufo abductees

289
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:48,399
3. the helicopters began to increase

290
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:50,240
their interest in ufo abductees during

291
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,560
the 80s up to the present but were also

292
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:54,639
reported near animal mutilation sites

293
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,440
and other areas in northern america

294
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:00,000
four at present many north american

295
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:02,240
abduction researchers have some cases in

296
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:03,680
their files

297
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:06,079
five there were reports of phantom

298
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,000
helicopter activity in england during

299
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:10,399
the 70s but it seems that their interest

300
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:13,040
in animal mutilations and abductees is

301
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:23,670
just so you know we will get into more

302
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:25,839
depth on these ideas when we get to the

303
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,760
actual book but for now i think it's

304
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:29,760
good just to get an idea of his basic

305
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,000
arguments and conclusion you know i like

306
00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:34,320
sort of going through these things

307
00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,880
in chronological order

308
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:39,200
in the same way that people who were

309
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,959
first being exposed to the ideas and

310
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,639
things like the mufon journal and these

311
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:44,720
books would have experienced them the

312
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,040
next section is entitled alleged

313
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,120
kidnappings by military slash

314
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:51,440
intelligence personnel lammer points to

315
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:54,240
the abduction experiences that were

316
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:56,959
experienced by leah haley katharina

317
00:13:03,350 --> 00:12:59,920
wilson and carla turner and reports that

318
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:03,360
quote a worldwide survey

319
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,600
and and this this might be addressed in

320
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:07,360
the book i'm going through these things

321
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:09,200
in chronological order so if i was just

322
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,680
reading this i would note that

323
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,920
and i'll finish this sentence in a bit i

324
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:15,600
would just note that there are lots of

325
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,160
footnotes for the various claims that

326
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,639
lammer is making but there is no

327
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:22,880
footnote denoting

328
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,399
who did this worldwide survey and when

329
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:28,800
it was done but he reports that there is

330
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:31,120
a worldwide survey done of abduction

331
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,320
researchers

332
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,279
and he found that quote most north

333
00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:37,600
american abduction researchers have on

334
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:39,920
average two to five millab cases in

335
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:42,480
their files at present it seems to me

336
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:45,040
that there are no ufo-related mill labs

337
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:48,639
in australia south america africa europe

338
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:51,839
england or ireland end quote

339
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:52,880
so

340
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:57,920
data science and that's overselling what

341
00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:00,079
i know about data science but some data

342
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:01,360
sciency

343
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:03,199
observations about this north american

344
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:04,880
abduction researchers have on average

345
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:07,680
two to five millab cases in their files

346
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:10,399
that is an almost entirely meaningless

347
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:12,320
statement unless we know

348
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:13,760
the actual

349
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,040
total number

350
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:18,000
of abduction cases in their files if

351
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,320
they have two to five mlab cases in

352
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:22,720
their files and their entire collection

353
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:24,959
of case files is

354
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,920
a hundred and fifty yeah that's a small

355
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:29,279
percentage

356
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:31,839
if however they've got two to five mlab

357
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,320
cases in their files and they've got a

358
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:36,000
total of

359
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:37,839
seven files

360
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:41,440
then my gosh the millab thing is

361
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:42,959
taking over

362
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,360
so these cases are present they're not

363
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:47,760
predominating by any stretch of the

364
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,240
imagination but they are

365
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,079
there and they are

366
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,440
a north american thing for the most part

367
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:57,360
in summarizing this section lammer

368
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,600
explains that there are some significant

369
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:01,839
differences between milabs as he has

370
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:04,399
come to understand and define them and

371
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:08,959
the typical alien abduction scenario

372
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,360
milabs involved the following elements

373
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,079
activity of dark unmarked helicopters

374
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,240
the appearance of strange vans or buses

375
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:18,480
outside the houses of abductees

376
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:20,800
exposure to disorienting electromagnetic

377
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:23,279
fields drugging transport with a

378
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:25,440
helicopter bus or truck to an unknown

379
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,519
building or an underground military

380
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:28,880
facility

381
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:31,279
usually there are physical after effects

382
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:33,199
like grogginess and sometimes nausea

383
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:35,440
after the kidnappings there is also a

384
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,519
difference when the abductors appear in

385
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:39,680
most ufo cases the beings appear through

386
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,600
a closed window or wall where the

387
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:43,519
abductee feels a strange presence in the

388
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,480
room

389
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,920
most abductees report that they are

390
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:47,680
paralyzed from the mental power of the

391
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,959
alien beings in millaps the abductee

392
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,639
reports that the kidnappers give him or

393
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,560
her a shot with a syringe

394
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,920
it is interesting that millab

395
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:57,440
experiencers report that they are

396
00:16:03,110 --> 00:15:59,839
examined by human doctors in rectangular

397
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:03,120
rooms and not in round sterile rooms as

398
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,680
in descriptions of ufo abductees the

399
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,240
described rooms halls and furniture are

400
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,320
similar to terrestrial hospital rooms

401
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:12,720
laboratories or research facilities and

402
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:20,389
but despite these differences there are

403
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:25,829
the examination is somewhat similar to

404
00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:28,560
ufo abductions the millab victim is not

405
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,639
paralyzed but tied to an examination

406
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:32,959
table or a gynecological chair

407
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:34,880
sometimes the abductee gets a strong

408
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:36,800
drink before an examination

409
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:38,720
this is perhaps a contrast enhancing

410
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,839
fluid

411
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,680
millap doctors are mostly dressed in

412
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:43,600
white lab coats and show an interest in

413
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:45,440
implants and or gynecological

414
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:46,800
examinations

415
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,360
in some milab cases a military doctor

416
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,440
allegedly searches for implants and

417
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:53,279
sometimes implants the abductee with a

418
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,880
military device

419
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,880
therefore surgeons seeking advanced

420
00:17:06,230 --> 00:16:59,279
alien implants should also be prepared

421
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,630
we'll get to this notion a bit later but

422
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:10,880
i noted at this point in my own initial

423
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:13,919
reading that this concept of screen

424
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:16,400
memories or other kind of mind

425
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,640
manipulation could account for some of

426
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:20,720
these differences and similarities

427
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,679
between

428
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,760
so-called milabs and

429
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:25,839
now let's say so-called

430
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:29,440
traditional alien abductions

431
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:32,559
the next section is entitled terrestrial

432
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:35,200
implants and here lammer talks about

433
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:38,160
rfid tags the size of a grain of rice

434
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:39,919
that are being developed that could

435
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:42,640
possibly be modified to track humans and

436
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:44,559
he also explains that some abductees

437
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:46,880
like leah haley have had such items

438
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,280
removed from their ears one example of

439
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:51,679
these devices he says can be tracked by

440
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,559
equipment on military helicopters he

441
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:56,960
also briefly discusses the work back in

442
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,559
the 1950s and 60s of dr jose delgado who

443
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,240
patented devices

444
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:03,600
to

445
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,960
basically

446
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:07,280
control motor functions and things like

447
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:11,280
that in human beings and jose

448
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:14,720
can't say it jose delgado's work has

449
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:19,679
been discussed i think in every

450
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,480
treatise essay book

451
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:23,840
chapter

452
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:26,799
web post youtube rant about

453
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,480
mind control implantation that i've ever

454
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:32,240
happened across i think i first heard

455
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:34,880
about jose delgado's work in an

456
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:37,679
interview that jim keith did when he was

457
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:40,320
promoting his book also from illuminet

458
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:43,679
press mind control world control lammer

459
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:46,160
also explains that investigation into

460
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:47,679
these devices

461
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:50,880
has been ongoing but not necessarily

462
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:54,480
within the ufo community

463
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:56,320
implants were being used on unwitting

464
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,720
persons as early as 50 years ago

465
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,559
one well-documented case of the

466
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:02,400
implantation of an electronic device

467
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:04,480
into a victim is the case of robert

468
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,799
nasland mr naisland claims he was

469
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:08,320
unwittingly implanted during an

470
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:10,480
operation in stockholm sweden

471
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,160
he has x-rays which show clearly a

472
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:14,640
mushroom-shaped device in his brain

473
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:16,320
he claims that the operation was

474
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,120
performed by dr kurt strand who inserted

475
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,720
the device in his head through the right

476
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,160
nasal passage

477
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,640
interestingly ufo abductees since the

478
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:26,559
60s have reported how alien beings

479
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,559
implanted small objects up their nose

480
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:30,559
through the nasal passage and sinus

481
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,640
cavity the transnasal approach of

482
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:34,240
implants is in common use in

483
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:35,679
neurosurgery

484
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:37,840
robert naisland is not the only victim

485
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:40,160
he is now a researcher of groupin an

486
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:41,919
organization against illegal mind

487
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,559
control experiments groupin and other

488
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:46,080
organizations like the freedom of

489
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,919
thought foundation have collected a lot

490
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,760
of evidence that a secret implantation

491
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:51,360
program is going on

492
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,280
these organizations are in contact with

493
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:54,960
many victims all over the world who have

494
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,360
reported similar effects as nasaland but

495
00:20:03,110 --> 00:19:59,200
have nothing to do with the ufo

496
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,029
this is something i find fairly

497
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,360
interesting because when i was working

498
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,600
on i think my first conspiracy theory

499
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:11,679
book back in

500
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:14,799
some year that i can't remember i

501
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:17,919
was kind of astounded to find that there

502
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:18,720
are

503
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:21,679
a number of organizations

504
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:24,159
sort of advocating for victims of

505
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:27,039
government mind control experimentation

506
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:27,919
and

507
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:37,840
been for a very long time

508
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,880
but

509
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:41,120
the ufo community

510
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:43,520
the sort of traditional ufo community

511
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,799
back in the 80s and 90s that was all in

512
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:48,480
on abductions

513
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,720
wasn't really looking at this they were

514
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:52,720
talking about implants yet people like

515
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:55,919
roger lear extracting implants and bits

516
00:21:03,029 --> 00:20:59,039
of metal and things from so-called

517
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:03,039
alleged alien abductees but rarely was

518
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:04,640
the

519
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:12,000
terrestrial objects discussed very much

520
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:14,960
section five is virtual reality

521
00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:17,679
scenarios and microwave hearing now

522
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,000
virtual reality or vr

523
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:23,039
is also a huge 90s thing kind of the

524
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:25,919
leftover remnants of cyberpunk and i

525
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,360
recall particularly the doctor who

526
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,679
novels spin-off novels of the early

527
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:33,360
1990s

528
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:36,320
every other one seemed to have some kind

529
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,200
of

530
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,120
virtual reality

531
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:41,679
element to it you had

532
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:44,559
similar things pop up in episodes of red

533
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:45,520
dwarf

534
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:47,840
we're just now getting to the point

535
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:50,880
where where virtual reality is

536
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,480
anywhere close to the form that was

537
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,240
promised decades ago and i'm not saying

538
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,400
that's a good thing also this phrase

539
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:58,960
virtual reality scenarios lammer does

540
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:01,840
give credit to uh carla turner who

541
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:03,440
coined that term and and these are

542
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,640
basically

543
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,799
i think of them in terms of that notion

544
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:08,640
of screen memories if you're familiar

545
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:11,120
with that abduction term a

546
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,559
new memory a new experience kind of

547
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:16,400
grafted over

548
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:19,919
um what actually happened if you recall

549
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,159
our episode on the book the janos people

550
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:26,159
you know the the family who was driving

551
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:28,960
along saw a ufo by a barn and just kept

552
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,159
driving

553
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:31,919
under hypnosis they

554
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:34,400
have a completely different memory of

555
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:35,600
what happened

556
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:36,480
so

557
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,960
lammer says that false memories and

558
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,039
experiences may be able to be

559
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:43,280
transmitted through these very

560
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:46,320
terrestrial implants in the victim and

561
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:48,640
while it sounds like it this is not

562
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,760
necessarily a science fictional idea

563
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,600
the new world vistas was a major

564
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:57,679
undertaking for the usaf scientific

565
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:00,320
advisory board this military publication

566
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:02,799
was published in june 1996 and is a

567
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,559
forecast of possible military

568
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:06,960
developments over the next 50 years

569
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:09,600
in it military scientists suggest the

570
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,520
development of electromagnetic energy

571
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:13,919
sources the output of which can be

572
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,880
pulsed

573
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:17,039
shaped focused and coupled with the

574
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:19,039
human body in a fashion that will allow

575
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:21,760
one to prevent voluntary muscular

576
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,240
movements control emotions and actions

577
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,960
produce sleep transmit suggestions

578
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:28,559
interfere with both short-term and

579
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:31,039
long-term memory and produce an

580
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:33,840
experience set or delete an experience

581
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,880
set

582
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:36,960
the military scientists argue that the

583
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:39,280
concept of imprinting a virtual reality

584
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,240
experience act is highly speculative but

585
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,320
nonetheless highly exciting

586
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,240
if such a technology was developed in

587
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,960
secret and exists today the remarkable

588
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:50,960
vividness of some abduction accounts may

589
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:53,679
be explained by the implantation of an

590
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:56,159
experienced set into the brain of an

591
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:02,630
he also discusses the fry effect or

592
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:05,840
microwave hearing which is sort of words

593
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,919
or ideas transmitted via microwave

594
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:09,919
brains in microwave

595
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,279
microwave

596
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,960
beams into

597
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,200
the brain or into a transmitter that has

598
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:17,200
been placed in the brain and he says

599
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:19,120
these could account for some abductee's

600
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:20,080
claims

601
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:23,200
that they hear voices now often

602
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,400
these voices that abductees heard were

603
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,480
dismissed as

604
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:30,840
schizophrenia

605
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:34,799
but if these abductees had no history of

606
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,200
schizophrenia before their experience

607
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:39,440
well that's a different sort of thing

608
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,679
maybe this fry effect this ability to

609
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:44,320
transmit signals into the brain could be

610
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,679
a possible

611
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,039
explanation

612
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:49,520
it's important to note that lammer is

613
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:52,080
very careful to explain that quote these

614
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,120
scenarios cannot be the case for all ufo

615
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,600
abductions like multiple abductions but

616
00:25:02,549 --> 00:24:59,679
it may explain a small portion or may

617
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:02,559
play a significant role in millab's end

618
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:04,720
quote he's not attempting to explain

619
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:07,679
away the entire phenomenon just account

620
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:10,480
for some aspects of it

621
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:12,400
the final section before his conclusion

622
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:14,960
is entitled otherworldly journeys and

623
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:17,440
military underground facilities and here

624
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:19,760
lammer refers to the work of dr richard

625
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:22,080
souter and his work on underground bases

626
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:24,400
now we did an episode about underground

627
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:26,480
bases a while back and i think we talked

628
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:28,480
about richard souter so be sure to check

629
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,320
that out in the archives

630
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,559
if you have not thus we know what

631
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:34,400
underground bases are but what about

632
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,320
otherworldly journeys now this is not

633
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:39,039
just a generic term for a journey to

634
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:41,279
another world here lammer is referring

635
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,480
to a specific

636
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:45,360
pattern undergone by abductees as

637
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:49,440
described by researcher thomas bullard

638
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,640
one preparation the alien beings put the

639
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:54,960
abductee into a protective environment

640
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:57,200
for the trip two

641
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,919
travel actual transit to the other world

642
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:01,120
occurs

643
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:02,080
three

644
00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:03,279
underground

645
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:07,679
four landscape

646
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,679
the abductee sees the surface of the

647
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:11,120
other world

648
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:17,130
includes a stop at a museum or zoo

649
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,240
[Music]

650
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:22,320
he goes on to cite several abductee

651
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,000
accounts including those of betty

652
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,559
andreas and carla turner that

653
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,480
exhibit these things but acknowledges

654
00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:30,000
that the flashbacks in which the

655
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:32,799
abductees describe such journeys need to

656
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:36,640
be investigated very carefully

657
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:38,799
such flashbacks should be investigated

658
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:40,559
very carefully since they could be a

659
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:42,400
mixture of an otherworldly journey

660
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:44,960
entering a welded underground city and a

661
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:47,039
millab underground experience seeing

662
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,720
military personnel

663
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,480
it is also important to note that some

664
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,480
abductees have flashbacks during which

665
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:54,480
they see aliens and military personnel

666
00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:56,559
together but during hypnosis the

667
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:58,480
abductee remembers only the military

668
00:27:01,830 --> 00:26:59,840
personnel

669
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,840
perhaps the abductee mixed a ufo

670
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:03,840
abduction experience and the millap

671
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:06,559
scenario or the abductee underwent some

672
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:08,480
kind of hypno programming by military

673
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:10,880
psychiatrists during the kidnapping

674
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:12,960
perhaps the military uses something like

675
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,279
electronic dissolution of memory which

676
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,799
is accomplished by electronically

677
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,480
jamming the brain causing the

678
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,399
neurotransmitter acetylcholine

679
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,640
to create static which blocks out sights

680
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:24,000
and sounds

681
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:26,080
after this mind control procedure a

682
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,159
millap abductee would have no memory of

683
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:30,880
what he she saw or heard the mind of the

684
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,350
there's a lot of maybe in there a lot of

685
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:39,600
perhaps but lammer is smart enough not

686
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:41,520
to try and be too definitive about this

687
00:27:45,029 --> 00:27:42,960
stuff at this point

688
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,039
it's preliminary after all and he does

689
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,880
admit that there's a possibility that

690
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:49,520
milabs are reporting or that what milabs

691
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,360
are reporting are actually quote cover

692
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:53,760
stories induced by the hypno programming

693
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,399
processes of military psychiatrists end

694
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:58,320
quote he does acknowledge that some

695
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:00,000
people claim that military folks could

696
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,080
be dressing up as aliens and that there

697
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,320
are no alien abductions at all he doubts

698
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:06,559
this is the case noting the military

699
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,039
aspect shows up primarily after the

700
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:10,960
1980s not before

701
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:13,039
also there are mind control victims that

702
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,520
report the same effects as abductees

703
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,520
without the ufo aspect and he wonders

704
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:19,679
why if abductions are just a cover for

705
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:22,320
mind control there's the reproductive

706
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:25,440
aspect to many abductee experiences so

707
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,919
he concludes that

708
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,799
you know

709
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,640
it's not just

710
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:32,640
all abductions are fake because it's

711
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,200
just mind control experimentation right

712
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:37,840
and he concludes the whole thing

713
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:40,559
by providing a rundown of his current

714
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:43,279
hypothesis

715
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:45,200
milabs may be evidence that a secret

716
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,200
military intelligence task force has

717
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,200
been in operation in north america since

718
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:51,200
the early 80s and is involved in the

719
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,600
monitoring and kidnapping of alleged ufo

720
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,880
abductees

721
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:56,559
in the beginning of the 80s a lot of

722
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,159
money became available under black

723
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:00,640
budgets for top secret military projects

724
00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:02,799
like the strategic defense initiative

725
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,880
this task force might be financed by a

726
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,480
portion of this money

727
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:08,480
it seems to me that they are interested

728
00:29:13,029 --> 00:29:11,279
in well-investigated ufo abduction cases

729
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:13,039
they are monitoring the houses of their

730
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:15,120
victims kidnapping and possibly

731
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,440
implanting them with military devices

732
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,840
sometimes shortly after a ufo abduction

733
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:21,200
experience

734
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,120
it appears to me that they are searching

735
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,600
for possible alien implants too their

736
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,360
gynecological interest in female

737
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,840
abductees could be explained if they are

738
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,679
searching for alleged alien hybrid

739
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,760
embryos since many of the abducted

740
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:35,840
females report missing embryo fetus

741
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:37,279
experiences

742
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:39,679
it seems equally probable that the force

743
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,120
or the people who are behind these

744
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:43,760
kidnappings employ advanced mind control

745
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:45,679
technology which is currently being

746
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:47,919
tested illegally on people who have

747
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,269
he's threading

748
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:57,520
very carefully the needle between

749
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,520
acknowledging the terrestrial aspects of

750
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,960
some abductions

751
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,799
but also

752
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:04,559
connecting them to

753
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:06,720
the possibility of

754
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:10,240
actual alien abductions it's not an

755
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,559
either or thing it's not all mind

756
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:14,159
control or all

757
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:16,880
alien abductions there are some of each

758
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:18,559
that are on those extreme one or the

759
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,159
other end but there are many in the

760
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:22,960
middle that might have elements of both

761
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:25,600
in a way it's not entirely dissimilar to

762
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,480
the john keel o-h krill hypothesis

763
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,720
of the military-industrial complex or

764
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,880
the military intelligence complex rather

765
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:34,880
being in league with the aliens although

766
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:36,960
here it's less being in league with the

767
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:38,799
aliens and more being

768
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:41,600
suspiciously curious about them so that

769
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:45,039
brings us to the end of lammer's initial

770
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:48,559
december 1996 article in the mufon

771
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:52,159
ufo journal and it would receive some

772
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:53,440
responses

773
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:56,480
from people and one response from one

774
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,440
person

775
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:00,000
in particular in the mufon journal and

776
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,559
another response from that person that

777
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:04,799
was not in the ufo

778
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:07,760
journal and that is an interesting story

779
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:10,320
as well so in the next issue

780
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:12,720
of the mufon ufo journal which was

781
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:17,039
february 1997 a woman named victoria

782
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:18,399
alexander

783
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,389
we'll be back in a week as usual

784
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,720
fielding your questions

785
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:32,799
and comments about this episode so be

786
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:34,720
sure to get those to us in the comments

787
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:37,840
under this episode on the website or on

788
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:39,679
social media like facebook or twitter or

789
00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:43,519
instagram or through email for you

790
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:45,120
email types

791
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,399
and announcement time again following up

792
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:50,880
next week february 1st seize the launch

793
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:53,200
of the chiso media patreon and we've got

794
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:54,799
some treats for you and i just wanted to

795
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,720
explain in a little more detail about

796
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,320
what's going to be there and i promise i

797
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,200
won't talk about this much going forward

798
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:02,960
i'll sort of mention what might be on

799
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:03,760
there

800
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:06,559
you know recently as a little enticement

801
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,519
but i just wanted to sort of lay it out

802
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:11,600
there will be a two dollar a month level

803
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:14,159
and that will provide regular text and

804
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:16,080
photo updates on the research and

805
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:18,399
recording process that goes into

806
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,760
our shows

807
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:21,360
think of it almost as little sort of

808
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:23,840
extended bloggy type things i'll

809
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:25,679
doubtlessly be showing off weird books

810
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:28,000
i've spent way too much money on and

811
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:29,919
samantha's really looking forward to

812
00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:32,000
talking about the angle we approach

813
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,919
things as we research things

814
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:36,720
as historians sort of an outlet for also

815
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:38,720
conversation about those things

816
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,440
you'll also get episodes of uh both

817
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,679
shows saucer life and great lakes lore

818
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:46,320
as soon as they're ready and with all

819
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:49,039
the patreon talk excised so you don't

820
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:50,880
have to hear about it we don't carry

821
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:52,480
actual ads so

822
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,159
getting rid of the patreon pitch in the

823
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:56,320
episodes will be our version of an

824
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:57,760
ad-free

825
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:58,880
show

826
00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:01,360
so at the five dollar a month level in

827
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:03,200
addition to to that stuff there will be

828
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,399
a bonus episode of the saucer life and a

829
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:08,399
bonus episode of great lakes lore every

830
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:09,440
month

831
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:14,799
video content for each episode we've

832
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,799
been playing around in the last couple

833
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:18,960
episodes of having

834
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:19,760
just

835
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:22,880
video immediately after record

836
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:25,600
stops uh or recording stops on the

837
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:28,480
episode and just um either on great

838
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:31,279
lakes lore sam and i talking about uh

839
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,720
what we liked what we didn't like what

840
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:34,960
was frustrating or fun about the episode

841
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:37,919
and what our favorite parts of it were

842
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,279
and in the case of

843
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:43,200
the saucer life it's it's me sort of

844
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,519
staring into the camera and going my god

845
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:47,919
what have i done what have i done or at

846
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:49,760
least that was the gist of the one

847
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:51,679
i did for the

848
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:54,399
george damsky's cosmic philosophy

849
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,480
episode which makes sense if you've

850
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:58,320
heard the episode

851
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,320
so there will be that there will be

852
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:02,399
additional video content

853
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,000
like outtakes

854
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,640
listener questions and answers field

855
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,320
trips we've uh we've done some field

856
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:10,480
trips so sort of like when we went to

857
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:12,560
the uh the michigan bigfoot conference

858
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,560
last summer for the saucer life or

859
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,040
things like that and other interesting

860
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:19,520
stuff on a regular basis the way we've

861
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:20,960
got it planned out we think it's good

862
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:23,359
value for money and we're excited about

863
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:24,800
some of the extra stuff we've got coming

864
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:27,520
up and this is also just a way to

865
00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:29,919
to do some interesting more experimental

866
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,079
things that i've been especially with

867
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,480
the saucer life that i've been wanting

868
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,240
to try out

869
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,000
as always you can check out past

870
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,320
episodes of the show in your podcast app

871
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:42,240
or at saucerlife.com

872
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:43,599
and we are

873
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:45,839
still on twitter and instagram at

874
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:48,800
saucerlife and you can email us at

875
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:52,079
thesaucerlife gmail.com oh and we are on

876
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:53,839
facebook if you search for saucer life

877
00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:56,720
podcast our page there shows up you can

878
00:35:03,390 --> 00:34:59,520
also contact us by post at chiso media

879
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:03,400
po box 68 grand blank michigan

880
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:06,000
48480 and now

881
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:16,150
in the next issue of the mufon journal

882
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:18,720
the february 1997 issue lammer's article

883
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:20,960
had generated some reader response

884
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:23,119
one letter in particular was interesting

885
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,160
for

886
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,480
a number of reasons

887
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:28,560
i would like to respond to preliminary

888
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:30,800
findings of project millab by helmut

889
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:33,680
lammer in a word horse droppings the

890
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:35,520
stories of alleged abductions and

891
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,839
medical examinations by the us military

892
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:39,920
black budget or otherwise are merely the

893
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:42,240
latest twist in abduction folklore

894
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,720
abductees like madonna know how to

895
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:46,720
constantly reinvent themselves so as to

896
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:48,560
keep us with our tongues hanging out

897
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,000
[Music]

898
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,920
so the argument seems to be heading in

899
00:35:57,829 --> 00:35:55,520
the direction of abductions aren't a

900
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:57,839
real thing so this argument about what

901
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:59,520
some abductions might be

902
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,880
must be wrong

903
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:02,560
and there's also i think it's safe to

904
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:04,800
say an ill-fitting emphasis on abductees

905
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,839
being attention-seeking and honestly i

906
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,680
think it's safe to say that the most

907
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,240
attention-seeking people in any sort of

908
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,040
abduction research situation are usually

909
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:17,599
the abduction researchers rather than

910
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,119
the abductees

911
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:21,520
also horse droppings

912
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:24,480
cutesy fake vulgarities are probably

913
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:27,119
second only to quotation marks to denote

914
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:28,880
emphasis on the list of things that make

915
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,599
me irrationally angry also her sentence

916
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,760
construction of

917
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:35,280
what was it

918
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,560
abductees comma like madonna comma know

919
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:40,480
how to constantly reinvent themselves so

920
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:42,160
as to keep us with our tongues hanging

921
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:43,200
out

922
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:46,320
is she saying that madonna likes to

923
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:48,160
reinvent herself to keep our tongues

924
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:49,280
hanging out

925
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:53,440
or is she saying madonna is an abductee

926
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:55,520
because honestly the construction of

927
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:58,320
that sentence makes it really really

928
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:01,520
ambiguous and kind of confusing

929
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,200
now the author of this letter goes on to

930
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:06,160
say that quote since we are all acronym

931
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:09,920
possessed may i propose aaa for an alien

932
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:11,920
apparition end quote

933
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,960
with this tremendously lame joke behind

934
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:16,480
us the letter writer transitions to

935
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,640
focusing on the fact that lammer used

936
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:20,560
the account of an abductee named debbie

937
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:23,119
jordan as one of his examples and this

938
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:25,520
author gives a fairly slanted recounting

939
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:27,440
of jordan's story including the

940
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:29,760
astoundingly petty comment quote i went

941
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:31,359
to three bookstores looking for miss

942
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:33,680
jordan's book and finally found it in a

943
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:36,320
local library end quote in this

944
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,760
recounting the letter writer

945
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,359
concentrated on jordan's harrowing

946
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:41,280
experiences of being with her friend

947
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:44,240
dave being kidnapped examined probed and

948
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,160
having an implant removed from her nose

949
00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:48,240
instead of calling the police the writer

950
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:50,000
snarks jordan called abduction

951
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:52,160
researcher bud hopkins now

952
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:55,200
actually i don't have a huge problem

953
00:38:00,310 --> 00:37:57,280
with that amount of snark right there

954
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,320
it's a completely reasonable thing to

955
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:02,640
sort of say or wonder about

956
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:03,440
but

957
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:06,400
the way the writer closes this letter

958
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:09,280
just kind of irks me

959
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,440
when will someone separate the sexually

960
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,520
repressed fantasies of lonely women from

961
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,359
the abduction genre and sort out what

962
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,599
belongs in therapy and what belongs in

963
00:38:21,690 --> 00:38:19,200
the mufon journal

964
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:21,700
victoria alexander las vegas nevada

965
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,960
[Music]

966
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:27,119
now leaving aside the dismissive and

967
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:29,040
stereotypical view of abductions let's

968
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:30,720
ask ourselves about the author a bunch

969
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:33,920
of you probably are saying i knew it

970
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,079
when you heard victoria alexander's name

971
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:38,400
but for the rest of you she did some ufo

972
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,400
research and is married to john

973
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:42,000
alexander

974
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:46,400
well this is what his

975
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,240
website biography currently says

976
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:52,240
dr john alexander has been a leading

977
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,440
advocate for the development of

978
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:55,200
non-lethal weapons since he created

979
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:56,640
renewed interest in the field starting

980
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:00,000
in 1989. in 2003 he served as a mentor

981
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,839
to afghan ministry of defense senior

982
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:03,440
officials through the office of military

983
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:05,839
cooperation he has traveled to all of

984
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,760
the continents on earth he trekked the

985
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:09,599
remote areas of tibet including the

986
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,160
mount everest base camp went to timbuktu

987
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,240
in the sahel in west africa tracked

988
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,400
gorillas in rwanda met shamans in the

989
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:18,720
amazon mongolia and voodoo witch doctors

990
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:21,520
in togo and benin traveled across cartel

991
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:23,520
controlled areas of central america

992
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,079
visited ancient temples in burma laos

993
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:28,560
thailand and cambodia in new guinea he

994
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,400
witnessed the emergence of stone age

995
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:32,160
tribes people who still practice

996
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:35,040
cannibalism on occasion and in 2014 was

997
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,800
swimming in the open ocean with humpback

998
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:38,800
whales in the kingdom of tonga

999
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:41,359
in 2015 he attended kumbay mela and

1000
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,240
nishik india visited bali and borobudur

1001
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:46,240
in indonesia and was diving on the great

1002
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:49,280
barrier reef off australia in 2016 a

1003
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:50,960
highlight was diving with great white

1004
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:59,430
i'm pretty sure which doctor isn't a

1005
00:40:02,069 --> 00:40:01,040
currently accepted

1006
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:02,079
term

1007
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:04,800
so anyway that's john alexander noted

1008
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:08,240
expert on non-lethal weaponry who is

1009
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,200
deeply involved in ufos near-death

1010
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:14,400
experience research and all sorts of

1011
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:15,680
other things

1012
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:18,400
you may also remember victoria alexander

1013
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,680
as the woman who called and left a

1014
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:21,280
threatening message for researcher

1015
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:23,440
martin cannon as discussed on our

1016
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,200
episode about the controllers a couple

1017
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,359
years ago now that incident took place

1018
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,599
earlier in the 1990s it's almost like

1019
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,680
victoria alexander has some kind of

1020
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:33,280
pre-existing

1021
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:36,160
axe to grind about mind control research

1022
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:38,560
intersecting with the ufo world

1023
00:40:43,630 --> 00:40:42,640
and as an aside i found this which i got

1024
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:43,640
on the

1025
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,920
whale.t.o website

1026
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:48,160
this is a discussion of the alexanders

1027
00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:55,430
colonel john alexander also called

1028
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:57,119
doctor who has been living in arizona

1029
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:58,480
and who has been in charge of making

1030
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,720
psychic warriors for the us army has the

1031
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:02,160
inside reputation of being the

1032
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,960
illuminati's top mind control programmer

1033
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:06,800
the scotland sinclair family of the

1034
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,200
magdalen line not of immanuel so-called

1035
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:11,760
jesus are vampires colonel john

1036
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:13,599
alexander and lieutenant colonel aquino

1037
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:16,079
both have vampiric wives i hope you can

1038
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:18,000
find photos of them i saw colonel

1039
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:19,920
alexander's last night he was the head

1040
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:21,599
of los alamos and it's called doctor

1041
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:23,839
death he has a doctorate in thanatology

1042
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:25,920
and wrote the book non-lethal weapons

1043
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:27,760
chris o'brien who was lecturing last

1044
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:29,680
night in sedona said his wife doesn't

1045
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,000
eat hell no she drinks human blood

1046
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,079
please see my page on aquino sinclair

1047
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:36,160
wifey by the way the da vinci code made

1048
00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:38,319
the sinclairs into heroin gods did you

1049
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:40,160
see the movie dan brown got away

1050
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,599
scot-free notice scott free even though

1051
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,040
he stole the ideas from the book's

1052
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,119
genesis and holy blood holy grail but

1053
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,960
the judges at the court of snakes didn't

1054
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,800
find him or sue him but let him go since

1055
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:52,880
he did their bidding of making them the

1056
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:55,440
children of jesus i.e emmanuel via

1057
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:02,470
note i do not endorse anything you just

1058
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,599
heard

1059
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:05,680
another note i barely understand

1060
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:08,640
anything you just heard now in the next

1061
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:10,560
issue of the mufon journal

1062
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,760
lammer himself would respond to victoria

1063
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:16,560
alexander's letter

1064
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,079
it is interesting to hear victoria

1065
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,560
alexander using fecal language horse

1066
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:22,160
droppings to criticize an article of

1067
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:23,599
which she has obviously read the first

1068
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:24,800
two pages

1069
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,720
perhaps it is easier for mrs alexander

1070
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,880
to ridicule an abductee than comment on

1071
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,640
the evidence that i presented in project

1072
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,960
millap for example black helicopter

1073
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:34,560
harassment near the homes of millap

1074
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:36,800
victims similarities between terrestrial

1075
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:38,640
implant procedures and devices and the

1076
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,720
reports of alleged mind control victims

1077
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:42,480
and hypnosis transcripts containing

1078
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:44,560
descriptions of human military

1079
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:45,680
involvement

1080
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:47,599
is mrs alexander an expert in the

1081
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:49,359
sexually repressed fantasies of lonely

1082
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:51,359
women or does she simply discount all

1083
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:53,040
reports of abductions during which

1084
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:55,200
anything other than a sexually related

1085
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,640
event occurs i eagerly await an aaa

1086
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,560
another alexander announcement

1087
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:02,640
containing a more rational evaluation of

1088
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:04,000
my article

1089
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:06,170
more science please less polemic

1090
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,349
debbie jordan would also fire back

1091
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:13,599
focusing especially on the sexually

1092
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:16,480
repressed characterization of abductees

1093
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:18,960
on which alexander based a lot of her

1094
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:21,119
argument

1095
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,720
i would also like to inform mrs

1096
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,400
alexander that i've been happily married

1097
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:26,319
to my husband for 10 years if she has

1098
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:28,079
any suspicions that i am a lonely woman

1099
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,839
who is experiencing sexually repressed

1100
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:31,920
fantasies i encourage her to contact my

1101
00:43:35,069 --> 00:43:34,000
husband herself by writing to eric

1102
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:35,079
ewilson

1103
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,280
alienjigsaw.com he would be happy to set

1104
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:39,040
the record straight and tell mrs

1105
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,880
alexander how incorrect her outdated

1106
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:43,200
freudian hypothesis is as it relates to

1107
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:43,920
me

1108
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:46,160
mrs alexander is incorrect again when

1109
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:48,240
she accuses us of being acronym

1110
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,079
possessed referring to the title of dr

1111
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,800
lammer's article project millap i'm just

1112
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:54,880
guessing but perhaps it is she who is

1113
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,359
accurate and obsessed after all she's

1114
00:44:03,910 --> 00:43:59,280
the one married to a retired colonel of

1115
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:05,990
ooh shots fired there's also another

1116
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,240
nice little dig at the end of debbie

1117
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:10,720
jordan's letter

1118
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,880
finally and most importantly what does

1119
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,480
stories of alleged abductions and

1120
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,640
medical examinations by the us military

1121
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:18,880
black budget or otherwise have to do

1122
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:21,119
with sexually repressed fantasies

1123
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:22,880
is there something we should know about

1124
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:23,940
mrs alexander

1125
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,400
[Music]

1126
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:28,079
now i'm not entirely sure what that

1127
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:30,880
means but it sounds pretty spicy

1128
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,640
victoria alexander would expand her

1129
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:34,480
thoughts about millabs and abductions in

1130
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:36,640
general in an essay entitled what would

1131
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,079
freud say

1132
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:40,319
probably something in german it's my

1133
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,560
guess but this was apparently submitted

1134
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:44,640
to but subsequently

1135
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:47,839
not published by mufon it circulated

1136
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:50,079
online and eventually reached a wider

1137
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:52,960
audience on the website of cause

1138
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,760
citizens against ufo secrecy in march

1139
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,400
1999. this is before the millaps book

1140
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:00,240
was published i'm fairly sure i think

1141
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,200
that was later in 1999. the essay had

1142
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:05,520
appeared earlier like i said and the

1143
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:07,440
earliest version i found floating around

1144
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,640
i'm not saying this is the earliest

1145
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,240
version but this is just an earlier

1146
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:12,480
version i found it's from november of

1147
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:14,079
1998.

1148
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:17,359
now the citizens against ufo secrecy

1149
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:20,079
intro to this piece is in my opinion

1150
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:22,079
kind of annoyingly

1151
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:25,040
gushing i guess

1152
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,119
cause presents a commentary by victoria

1153
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:29,359
alexander the female energy behind the

1154
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,200
man known for his work with non-lethal

1155
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:33,440
weapons and allegedly a present member

1156
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,560
of mj12 her husband john alexander

1157
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,400
victoria has written extensively about

1158
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,480
her controversial opinions about certain

1159
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:42,800
aspects of the ufo phenomenon and

1160
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:48,950
i'm going to start referring to the

1161
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:50,560
saucer wife when i introduce her to

1162
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:53,599
people as the female energy behind the

1163
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:55,440
host of

1164
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,560
several

1165
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,240
podcasts

1166
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:01,040
what a strange way to put something i

1167
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:02,560
don't know that's just

1168
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:04,720
it just sounds very strange to me

1169
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:06,800
alexander opens by

1170
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,280
honestly denouncing the entire alien

1171
00:46:13,309 --> 00:46:11,359
abduction concept

1172
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:13,319
at this time there's absolutely no

1173
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:15,440
incontrovertible proof that aliens are

1174
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,680
abducting experimenting on sexually

1175
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,440
abusing and mating with humans to

1176
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:21,119
produce a hybrid race

1177
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:23,440
ongoing fast track advances in genetic

1178
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,280
engineering clearly indicates that

1179
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:27,520
physical intercourse to produce hybrids

1180
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:30,400
is extremely inefficient and unnecessary

1181
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:31,920
as we have seen with the preliminary

1182
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:34,240
work and cloning earth scientists do not

1183
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,160
even need sperm or ova to reproduce

1184
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,240
offspring yet we are asked to believe

1185
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:40,800
clumsy archaic procedures are conducted

1186
00:46:51,589 --> 00:46:49,030
what i find so strange about this and

1187
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,599
about this entire article in particular

1188
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:52,800
is that

1189
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:54,880
you know it's sort of

1190
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:57,839
focused on lammers stuff but also on the

1191
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:00,800
alien abductions in general and those

1192
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:03,280
are two very different narratives about

1193
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:06,480
what is going on so

1194
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:08,079
she's she's

1195
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:10,960
it seems like a giant bundle of various

1196
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:13,520
straw man arguments none of which

1197
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:16,319
really get close to

1198
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:18,160
very logically

1199
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:21,040
attacking what lammer is actually doing

1200
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:21,760
so

1201
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:24,559
abductions no evidence all we have she

1202
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:26,640
says are stories but if the stories

1203
00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:29,920
aren't factually real what purpose do

1204
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,359
abduction

1205
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,000
accounts serve she asks and her

1206
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,079
explanation or argument about what

1207
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:38,400
abduction accounts really are for and

1208
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:40,559
what purpose they serve is a bit of an

1209
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:41,920
expansion

1210
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:44,079
on the direction in which she was going

1211
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:47,760
in her letter to the mufon journal

1212
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:50,000
i propose that the abduction experience

1213
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:51,680
in some way enriches the lives of

1214
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,520
abductees by either purging their

1215
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,440
troubled psyches or allows them to

1216
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,839
undergo an arthritic sci-fi shamanic

1217
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,520
jaunt without the burden of leaving the

1218
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:01,359
comfort of bedroom at home

1219
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,280
they undergo a self-described horrific

1220
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,920
ordeal which sets them apart identifies

1221
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:08,160
them and regardless of angry denials

1222
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:09,839
makes them special either to

1223
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:12,559
investigators researchers the media or

1224
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:13,760
their circle of friends

1225
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:17,040
[Music]

1226
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:18,880
so we're back at this notion of the

1227
00:48:23,589 --> 00:48:20,960
sharing of abduction stories basically

1228
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:23,599
being attention-seeking behavior

1229
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:25,200
but what about those who aren't really

1230
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:27,040
seeking attention who are anonymous who

1231
00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:27,760
are

1232
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:29,839
simply names in a file in some

1233
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:31,760
researchers filing cabinet whose stories

1234
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:33,040
are never shared

1235
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:34,640
what about them they're not seeking

1236
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,359
attention are they

1237
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,359
an anticipated response to the claim

1238
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:41,520
that when abductees refuse to go public

1239
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:43,599
request anonymity do not pursue a book

1240
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:46,319
contract or appear on tv shows this in

1241
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:48,559
any way automatically anoints the story

1242
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:50,720
truthful i submit that writing to a

1243
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,800
researcher having a prominent ufo

1244
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,880
personality read one's diaries letters

1245
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:57,119
and poems to be counseled and comforted

1246
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:58,880
by interested parties for hours and

1247
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:00,800
discussing one's entire life in detail

1248
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,119
is enough satisfaction already and quite

1249
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:05,119
flattering without the taxing demands of

1250
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:06,960
a book deal or an appearance on the

1251
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:15,109
this is

1252
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:19,440
root cause of abduction experiences it's

1253
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:21,599
often evident at least to me

1254
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,680
that in a lot of cases there's some

1255
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,920
trauma at the heart of it and it's it's

1256
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:27,680
real and sometimes that trauma is

1257
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:30,559
exacerbated by the abduction hypnosis

1258
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,119
research process depending on

1259
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:35,520
who might be involved alexander seems

1260
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:36,400
almost

1261
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,200
gleefully dismissive of abductees here

1262
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:41,280
she then cherry-picks some examples from

1263
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:43,200
abductee literature focusing her

1264
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:44,880
attention on passages that highlight

1265
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,880
sexual aspects of the phenomenon

1266
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:48,480
psychological issues suffered by

1267
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:51,119
abductees and at one point basically

1268
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:54,160
mocking an abductee's obesity

1269
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:55,920
of course not all abductees are

1270
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,319
overweight psychosexually incapacitated

1271
00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:00,000
or suffering from a life tormented by

1272
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:02,480
illnesses yet with few exceptions this

1273
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:04,960
is the alien abduction foundation these

1274
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:07,280
abductee pioneers laid the groundwork

1275
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:09,040
and introduced a scenario that offers a

1276
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,440
myriad of psychological benefits the

1277
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:13,520
experience is indeed being reshaped and

1278
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:15,440
redesigned to fit a person's peculiar

1279
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:22,870
she finally eventually turns her

1280
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,880
attention to lammer's milabs thesis and

1281
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:26,880
accuses him of basically having no idea

1282
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:29,680
what he's talking about about anything

1283
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,599
and for example with regard to black

1284
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:33,359
budgets and budgetary structures that

1285
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:34,960
would be needed to deceive lawmakers and

1286
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:37,280
bureaucrats in order to carry out such

1287
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:39,920
projects she also has strong doubts

1288
00:50:44,710 --> 00:50:43,359
about his technical knowledge

1289
00:50:46,309 --> 00:50:44,720
throughout lammer's paper he

1290
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:46,319
consistently attributes technical

1291
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,240
capabilities far beyond the state of the

1292
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,319
art he believes everything he's told by

1293
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:52,079
millab's assuming such technology has

1294
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:54,160
been perfected employed and has been

1295
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:56,720
operational for decades while abductees

1296
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:58,240
have been reporting their experiences

1297
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:00,400
over long periods of time and in some

1298
00:51:04,870 --> 00:51:02,559
cases from generation to generation the

1299
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:04,880
first operational gps satellite was not

1300
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:07,760
launched until february 1989 the 24

1301
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:10,319
satellites of the gps constellation was

1302
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:19,630
this is just willfully

1303
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:22,400
obfuscatory um

1304
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:24,000
i did some checking

1305
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:27,520
the first gps test satellites that we

1306
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:29,040
know of here in

1307
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:30,240
the public

1308
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:33,839
went into orbit in the 1970s

1309
00:51:38,710 --> 00:51:37,280
and i'm sure the government the military

1310
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,720
anybody who would be doing the sorts of

1311
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:40,640
things lammer suspects they might be

1312
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:41,599
doing

1313
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:42,400
would

1314
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:45,440
be having access to these things far

1315
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:47,599
before even

1316
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:49,920
the rest of the sort of in quotes normal

1317
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:52,319
military would

1318
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:54,000
also

1319
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:55,200
lammer

1320
00:52:01,750 --> 00:51:58,720
says many times in that initial mufon

1321
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:01,760
article that the millaps thing is very

1322
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,200
much a 1980s and onward phenomenon

1323
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:07,440
i don't know kind of right around the

1324
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,359
time that some of the technology he was

1325
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:11,520
talking about would have been available

1326
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:13,200
to somebody

1327
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:14,319
maybe

1328
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:15,760
i don't know

1329
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:17,760
she moves toward her conclusion with a

1330
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,240
final condemnation of lammer's work and

1331
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,720
a reiteration of the psychological basis

1332
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:25,280
of abduction claims

1333
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,040
in summary lammer's conclusions are

1334
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:29,280
totally unsubstantiated and therefore

1335
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:31,680
unreliable he juxtaposes scientific

1336
00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:33,760
sources with junk logic and tabloid

1337
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:36,319
style journalism the millab hypothesis

1338
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,960
supports a psychological explanation if

1339
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,400
veritical evidence for physical

1340
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:42,720
abduction exists it is incumbent on the

1341
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:44,960
victims to report it if psychological

1342
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:51,430
and then

1343
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,000
she moves into a final condemnation of

1344
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:56,559
abductees and it's

1345
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:59,119
it's a doozy

1346
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:01,040
society applauds and encourages

1347
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,880
individuals to come forward and report

1348
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,280
domestic abuse rape child abuse and

1349
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,040
sexual harassment in the workplace and

1350
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:09,520
the military we support people who fight

1351
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:11,440
drug dealers in their neighborhoods we

1352
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,200
recognize the peril these individuals

1353
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:15,520
put themselves in by coming forward in

1354
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:17,200
these cases violence is not a mere

1355
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:20,240
threat but a likely outcome however we

1356
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:22,480
allow abductees to be absolved from

1357
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,480
publicly reporting gross injustices

1358
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,800
against them by our military personnel

1359
00:53:30,150 --> 00:53:28,480
if indeed there are hundreds even

1360
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:30,160
thousands of women who are victims of

1361
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,839
unwanted military surveillance and

1362
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:33,680
criminal activities their impressive

1363
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:36,079
numbers will prevail to effect change

1364
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:37,520
they must stand up and present their

1365
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:38,880
case to the public

1366
00:53:42,549 --> 00:53:40,720
if law-abiding high-functioning

1367
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,559
tax-paying citizens come forward with

1368
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:44,720
their allegations and provide credible

1369
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,520
testimony they'll be listened to or have

1370
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:49,280
we forgotten the fact that we live in a

1371
00:53:53,349 --> 00:53:51,200
democratic society with laws against

1372
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,359
kidnapping and medically experimenting

1373
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,720
on its citizens

1374
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,400
i urge all men and women who have been

1375
00:54:01,349 --> 00:53:59,040
harassed abused and kidnapped by

1376
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:01,359
military personnel to publicly come

1377
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:08,309
in case you had any sort of illusion

1378
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,240
left that this was a good faith effort

1379
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:12,720
to make an argument against what lammer

1380
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:14,960
was proposing and there are arguments to

1381
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:17,520
be made against what lammer is proposing

1382
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:19,680
he hadn't at this point proven anything

1383
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:21,920
conclusively but if you thought that's

1384
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:25,280
what victoria alexander was doing

1385
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,599
yikes yeah i mean come on i mean if

1386
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:29,440
you're being mind controlled by the

1387
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,640
government why don't you say something

1388
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:34,640
okay to whom

1389
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:35,599
right

1390
00:54:39,069 --> 00:54:36,960
there are

1391
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:39,079
at this point in

1392
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:42,400
1998 or 99 when she's writing this there

1393
00:54:45,990 --> 00:54:44,319
are multiple documented cases of

1394
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:46,000
government mind control experimentation

1395
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:47,359
we've talked about this sort of thing on

1396
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,720
the show before

1397
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:50,640
this is

1398
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:55,280
column is

1399
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:58,480
is really really irritating and then and

1400
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,200
then she sort of gets sort of snarky at

1401
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:03,680
debbie jordan and debbie jordan's

1402
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,559
response in the mufon journal

1403
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,319
in furtherance of the comments addressed

1404
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:12,319
to me in the mufon journal i intend to

1405
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,319
avail myself of katherine wilson's

1406
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:16,400
generous suggestion that i contact her

1407
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:17,920
husband by email to discuss her

1408
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,079
sexuality though aren't there internet

1409
00:55:22,340 --> 00:55:21,839
chat rooms already set up for that kind

1410
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:22,350
of stuff

1411
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:24,240
[Music]

1412
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:26,720
that doesn't make any sense and it

1413
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,559
wasn't katharina wilson it was debbie

1414
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:30,240
jordan she was responding to catherine

1415
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:32,559
wilson was i think debbie jordan's

1416
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,880
co-author in her abduction book but at

1417
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:36,960
the same time what what is is

1418
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,640
alexander saying that aren't there

1419
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:40,400
internet chat rooms to discuss debbie

1420
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:42,079
jordan's sexuality with her husband i

1421
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:42,960
don't know

1422
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:46,000
it makes no sense and then she signs off

1423
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:48,640
with this little gem

1424
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:50,720
i'd like to thank my husband john b

1425
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:53,920
alexander phd for his support review and

1426
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:55,970
insightful contributions to this article

1427
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,480
[Music]

1428
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:00,559
in case any of you thought that victoria

1429
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:04,319
alexander was an expert on gps history

1430
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,200
and

1431
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:07,599
budgetary structure in the

1432
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,680
defense intelligence sector i think we

1433
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:12,240
know who really wrote this or who really

1434
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,040
wrote

1435
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,000
significant bits of it and this is where

1436
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:18,240
we're going to end this which is part

1437
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:20,720
one we're going to be doing part two

1438
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:22,799
next time and we are actually going to

1439
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:24,480
get to

1440
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,760
i'm pretty sure the actual millabs book

1441
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:29,760
it's a wild ride isn't it because

1442
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:31,119
there's a lot of back and forth there's

1443
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:33,680
a lot of arguments but it's one of those

1444
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:35,440
things where the deeper i dug into this

1445
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:38,079
the more there was and so this is going

1446
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:39,680
to be one of our

1447
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:42,480
maybe not rare anymore but less common

1448
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,200
two-part episodes so come back next time

1449
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:47,680
for the rest of the story

1450
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,589
next time more millabs thanks for

1451
00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:57,280
listening remember to send in your

1452
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:58,880
questions and comments via the usual

1453
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,640
social media or email channels and we'll

1454
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:02,400
address it on our feedback episode next

1455
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,319
week where hopefully i won't have to

1456
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:06,400
answer every question with wait for part

1457
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:07,200
two

1458
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:08,960
our associate producer is simpson j

1459
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:11,040
hanover iii the saucer life is a

1460
00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:13,599
production of chiso media llc chiso

1461
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:16,400
media our heart is with the people till